Good Reads Discussion on Fanny Price & Edmund Bertram
Cathy Vincevic asked:
This question contains spoilers… [Would Fanny be a first, or second cousin to Edmund? I know it was legal, then, to marry your first cousin, but I hope they didn't have children. Hapsburg chins. (hide spoiler)]
Musica1 Scientific studies have now shown that marrying a first cousin doesn't statistically increase your chances of genetic defects. It was fairly common in the past and only seems weird to us because we don't do it anymore. When you read anything, be it a history book or a novel, you need to try to put yourself into the feelings and thoughts of that time period to understand people's actions, and not judge actions based on modern ideas and feelings. In 200 more years things we take as normal will probably seem shocking.
Mary Catelli The Hapsburgs were in trouble not because of a first cousin marriage but because they had been interbreeding for generations. One is not that dangerous.
Nente I think they did have children. In the end Austen says that the Mansfield living fell to Edmund "just as they have lived together long enough to feel the need of increasing their income" - i.e. Fanny was in an interesting state, probably.
Greg Well, it's true there might be no problems genetically, but still there is a risk and that's why today this just is NOT done, it is taboo, and from a strictly scientific point of view it should be taboo. Besides, I don't think Austen had any idea how she would end the book so she wrote 400 pages, pretty much gave up, then added ten more to wrap things up. The end does not make sense to me.
Marian Dunbar It is still legal in most places in the world to marry your first cousin.
Victoria Foote-Blackman Yes, they are most decidedly first cousins. Edmund's mother--Fanny's aunt--is one of two sisters to Fanny's poor mother. The third sister--thus aunt to both Edmund and Fanny-- is the ever-present Mrs. Norris.
Megan How weird would it be though, to marry a man with the same grandparents as you!? Their moms were sisters..so...that would mean that branch of the family tree didnt extend thaat much. One thing I love about reading classic literature though, is seeing signs of what "normal" was in those times. At one point, I think Mr. Bertrem says to Fanny something like "You could live another 18 years!". And she's only 18! To be middle aged as a teenager--not something that can be related to in modern times. (Just as the thought of marrying a first cousin would be a tad too on the incestuous side for most folks..)
Ruth Woodhouse LOL - I haven't read the book yet, but was reading the comments here as I'm thinking about this being the next Jane Austen book I read. When I saw these comments re marrying your cousin, I couldn't help but respond. It is now recognised that marrying one's cousin isn't problematic - it's marrying your SECOND cousin that apparently carries great genetic risks. I would think cousins marrying would be relatively common and not result in anything tragic.
Shruti It bothered me too! :P
Der Buchklub I disagree with Musica1. Jane Austen was well aware that the incestuous marriage between Fanny and Edmund does not feel natural, even to contemporary readers. There are many hints to this especially in the last chapter. Incest was a strategy used by the higher classes to maintain power and privilege, which resulted in an idealisation of brother-sister love in the 19th century. I would say that the uncomfortable "happy ending" in Mansfield Park is a subtle critique of this tendency. For an in-depth analyzis see the article by J. M. Smith: https://www.jstor.org/stable/29532464...
Na Tasha It is legal to marry your first cousin in the UK in 2022.
Marion First cousins, first cousins who were raised as brother and sister! Maybe if they met later as adults, never knew each other, met, fell in love, okay. But raised as brother and sister? Nooo . . I think not.
Brad Ryder If you look at the royal family, in-breeding explains a lot.
Edith First cousin. No harm usually done if not repeated in subsequent generations. As Mary Catelli remarks below, the Hapsburgs intermarried many times over successive generations.
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